TOWN OF ROSENDALE
TOWN BOARD WORKSHOP MEETING
JUNE 1, 2011
The meeting was called to order by Supervisor McDonough at 7:30 pm at
the Rosendale Community Center with the Pledge to the Flag.
PRESENT: Councilman Robert Gallagher
Councilwoman Manna Jo Greene
Councilman Kenneth Hassett
Councilman Richard Minissali
ALSO PRESENT: Jennifer Metzger- Deputy Supervisor, Jeanne Walsh
–Planning Board, Tim Morrison – ZRC, Billy Liggan – Planning Board, Carl
Hornbeck – Highway Superintendent, Gary Jacobson – ZRC, Jack Snyder –
PUBLIC INPUT / COMMENT: Jennifer Metzger wanted to let the board know
that the ZRC and Planning Board are working on allowing Poultry in a
Residential Zone. They have given a copy of the new code to the Building
Office for review.
Jennifer Metzger also stated that the application for the NYSERDA
grants for energy efficiency programs and Climate Smart in town
have been submitted.
1 ) The town is still in need of Volunteers for the ZBA, Recreation Commission, and Water/Sewer Commission.
2 ) A discussion on Joppenbergh was next. Supervisor McDonough
wanted to report as to where we were in the purchase. I had to go over
the Annual Report before I could answer the question as to where the
money was from the sale of the Mountain Road Property. Last year
$100,000 went into revenue short falls to cover expenses. The board used
another $150,000 to offset taxes this year. This gave us $80,000 left
over at the end of the year. Supervisor McDonough said he asked the Town
attorney and the accountant to go over what was done with the State
Controller to see if it was allowed. It is allowed because a bookkeeping
error did not record it in a Capital Account as per Resolution. But it
was good we did not put it in because the State Controller’s Office does
not recognize this line item. Supervisor McDonough again mentioned
everything so far was above board but did not know if we should spend
the $80,000 left on Joppenbergh.
Councilman Hassett questioned first we took $100,000 for last year, than we took $100,000 for this year’s budget.
Supervisor McDonough said this year was $150,000.
Councilman Hassett when did that change.
Supervisor McDonough – when we did the preliminary budget it
was $100,000, but we had to raise it to $150,000 for the final budget,
the board approved the budget.
Councilwoman Greene said she had the same question as Councilman Hassett.
Tim Morrison asked where does that leave us as far as Joppenbergh?
Supervisor McDonough said we can still go ahead if we want to.
Councilman Hassett asked Supervisor wasn’t there another petition
presented for a referendum on the purchase; a second petition was
presented to the Town Clerk and copy was given to the Supervisor last
Supervisor McDonough said he will bring the petition to the next meeting.
Councilwoman Greene said $150,000 was used to reduce this year’s
taxes, but you Supervisor McDonough as Chief Financial Officer should
have brought the change from$100,000 to $150,000 to the Town Board’s
attention. Being there was a short far last year we need to look closer
Joe Roddy brought up the parking lot spaces that were supposed to be
paid for by the businesses on Main Street. This all started in 2004; if
he was the town it should enforce it and make money.
Tim Morrison again wanted to know where we are with the purchase.
Supervisor McDonough – I did not sign anything yet. It is not off the table until I know there is no funding.
Kelly ----- How much funding are we looking for?
Councilman Hassett mentioned he spoke with the accountant for the
town, Maggie , she said we do not have the money for the rest of this
year much less to buy a mountain. We might have to bond to make it
through the year. The attorney fees alone she pointed out are well over
50% of the allotment and we are not ever half way through the year. We
still have more billing with the sign law, Zoning changes, etc.
Jennifer Metzger mentioned that the Zoning Review committee is about done and there should be no more costs.
Jeanne Walsh heard there was other interest in the mountain and has
anyone spoken to them about the possibility of the town getting parking.
Do we know if the sellers would hold the mortgage? Parking / rail
trail/ etc. all good for town.
Joe Roddy again questioned parking fees.
Jeanne Walsh asked if she could speak from planning board stand
point, a committee was formed that went down Main St. to count parking
spots needed for each business to go on taxes each year. Paperwork
was completed but that is as far as it went.
Councilman Gallagher – all the paperwork is on file at town hall.
Fre Atlast - What is OSI deadline?
Supervisor McDonough their deadline was last month.
Fre Atlast -The parking lot would be gone and so would the businesses
on Main St. without the parking. What if we fund raise the $80,000?
Brett Hansen – Do we know what restrictions OSI would put on the property?
Supervisor McDonough said we do have copy a of conservation easement; it would be for recreational use only.
Brett Hansen – If we did the purchase without making it recreational or doing anything with it at this time could we afford it.
Jessie Scherer- It would be great to get stuck with it. Would OSI
hold mortgage or could the town take out a mortgage. At public hearing I
understood the owners really want to sell to OSI so the town gets the
Bill Hevesy asked when Mountain Road property was sold the money was
to go to Capital improvement. It was nice to use to offset taxes, but
that is not where it was supposed to go.
Kelly------ If the town borrows then we have to do a referendum, if we do not borrow we do not need referendum, correct.
Gary Jacobsen this is a great opportunity. We did not need a referendum to use $150,000 on taxes.
Chickie Skerritt, I do not understand why people are afraid of
referendum, it would let everybody have a say. The seniors do not come
out at night and a lot of people do not speak in public but they are
Jack Snyder- Did OSI buy property already, Is there a line waiting to
buy it, OSI money is our tax dollars and grants are our tax money.
Councilman Minissali I heard a rumor someone else is interested in
the property. I do want to state that OSI is not trying to sell the
property the owners of the property are trying to sell.
Amy Trumpetter said I just think we need to know what we can do later
with the property, what the police, fire and other expenses will be.
Councilwoman Greene suggested a bi-partisan group come together to
look at all the questions. Councilman Minissali if the citizens raise
$80,000 can we look to purchase the mountain. If citizens raise the
funds the town does not have control of the money or purchase; it
Hal Sampson how much tax dollars are lost in this comes off the roll? I figure it will take 24 years to recoup this.
Councilman Minissali said he did figure it out rent money & taxes and it would be only 12 years.
Ann Citron said if we don’t buy it the new owner will raise the rent on our parking.
Billy Liggan- If citizens raise money and give it to town it will be a
gift. We do not have to have a referendum on a gift.
Councilman Minissali will we upset those who want to vote on it.
Tim Morrison In last 8 years property that has come off tax rolls; 11
acres on Creek Locks, Theatre building, parts of Larsen’s, now
Supervisor McDonough stated that only 11% of town tax exempt properties, county are at 30%.
Councilman Minissali the Theatre tax was $4000-$5000 a year, we were talking of a possible P.I.L.O.T.
Hope Windell - OSI willing to just spend $185,000 and only get $85,000 to walk away.
Jeff Boos $80,000 surplus, what about the liability of the rocks falling off the mountain.
Rick VandenHeuvel - I support taking advantage of getting the
mountain. Let’s raise the money. We already have 2 plazas in town that
need work, we don’t need more empty buildings.
Councilman Minissali the theatre started with just 8 people and lunch
at the Big Cheese. So you decide when & where to get started to
raise money and go for it.
Councilman Gallagher all I want to say is we have to be fiscally
responsible because we are going to have a short fall again this year.
Councilwoman Greene if a committee is formed it needs to include all
stakeholders; also can Tim Morrison go back over the parking and get it
Who collects fee Planning Board or Building Office, how much, etc.
Can we get the parking fees on agenda next week; Supervisor McDonough said yes.
Someone wanted to know why worry about the fees when we are not going to have the lot;
Carl Hornbeck said the town still owns about 20 spaces.
We then went out of order from the agenda:
5 ) Carl Hornbeck Highway Superintendent presented a
proposal for a Sand/Salt Shed on the town owned Creek Locks Rd.
property. For the last 18+ years we have needed a shed. The DEC has been
every lenient in the requirements with us. We are the only one of 20
towns in the county who does not have a salt shed. Our pile is now
located on the IMAR property which the town now owns; every year we
uncover in the fall and recover in the spring. There is a concrete pad
there already on the Creek Locks property that we can use; the building
would be free standing 80’ X 55’; we have a quote of $56,000, but it
does not include the blocks. The highway department can do a lot of the
pre-site work. The access in and out would be great for both delivery
and our trucks.
Joe Roddy thinks there is an issue between the pad and sewer plant
with the original spillway; the Town Board will look over the site this
Jennifer Metzger said this is a better site environmentally and will save money because the pad is already there.
Brandon Walsh – Is this where the purposed housing project and Town Hall was going?
Supervisor McDonough answer the house projects have gone for now
because the Sewer Plant needs upgrades and we did not get the grants.
Highway Superintendent Carl Hornbeck said he has been in the town
employ since 1976 and this salt shed is needed; we own the property on
Creek Locks, so let’s use it.
Tim Morrison asked if the pad will support the weight of the trucks;
Carl said yes they had trucks on there when they took the buildings
Jeanne Walsh wanted to know if anybody looked at the run off with the
creek nearby; Carl -Any run off will be contained in the building
because of the block walls along the bottom; there also will be less run
off because it will be covered at all times.
Brandon Walsh wanted to know if the town would save money by
buying all their salt and sand in larger amounts; Carl – just more
Councilman Minissali asked the cost of $56,000 is just the shell, is there a way of using recycled blocks?
Carl said the price is because of prevailing wage laws.
Councilman Minissali - what kind of work is it we are talking about, can volunteers do it?
Carl - You are talking about climbing high and putting put the building together, steel work.
Councilman Minissali asked with the fact we just said we had no money
to purchase a mountain, do we have this money; Supervisor McDonough
explained that the money was in a capital building account with a
balance of $215,000.
Councilman Hassett wanted to know if there would be electric in the
building and Carl responded that the work can be done in house.
A motion was made by Councilman Hassett to go to bid for salt shed on Creek Locks.
Councilwoman Greene said she did not feel comfortable about the
motion because she did not know where they were talking about putting
the Salt Shed.
Councilman Hassett pulled his motion until next week after Councilwoman Greene gets a chance to look over the site.
Councilman Minissali questioned when was the latest Carl would need
the shed built by; Carl responded that by August would be best because
bidding changes start September 1st.
Councilman Minissali wanted to know when a schedule of work would be ready.
Brandon Walsh said concrete needs time to set before winter.
Carl is hoping to be complete by Sept. 1st.
Jeanne Walsh wanted to ask that the planning board get a copy of a
site plan even though the town is exempt by law from having
to file one; Carl said no problem.
Still out of agenda order we went to discussion of cemetery.
6 ) Supervisor McDonough mentioned that he has received a
request from the Rosendale Plains Cemetery Board of Trustees for help;
there has been a change in the law as of May 5, 2010 the towns can now
help out with the cemeteries financially or in helping with maintenance;
Mr. Hermance , president of the cemetery board had asked for financial
help but the town is in no position at this time to give financial
support; the cemetery is paying around $17000 a year for mowing
and cleanup at this time and taking in very little; Carl Hornbeck said
he has spoken with Mr.Hermance and offered help during his
workers’ slow times for trim trees, which would help.
If the town does not help now, in a couple of years the cemetery will
close; the law states at that time the town will have to take over and
run it as a cemetery.
Carl said he was already thinking of hiring another worker for around
the Community center to mow the grass and do weed-wacking, so he could
have that person also work at the cemetery. This worker would only be
for 3 or 4 months a year.
Councilman Hassett wanted to know did we need some kind of agreement
in writing between the town and cemetery board; Carl said he did not
know but could ask Albany.
Joe Ruddy said that extras add up and we do not have the money to help them out .
Bill Liggan who is on the cemetery board wanted to let the town board
know that if they do not get some type of help the cemetery is only
going to be open about 1 ½ more years.
Supervisor McDonough said he will look into if we need a contract or not.
Jack Snyder spoke on behalf of the Water/Sewer Commission stating the
town needs to remember the Water Tank needs repair at a cost of
$500,000, the Sewer plant at a cost of $200,000 and if the repairs to
the water tank are not done shortly replacing the tank could cost of
Tim Morrison responded that the private water district he is in gets
no support from the taxpayers. If our wells go we have to pay.
Jennifer Metzger mentioned that another round of funding grants will
becoming this fall. Councilman Minissali stated that Main Street depends
on the water & sewer and if it fails businesses will shut
Jeanne Walsh wanted to know what ever happen to all apartments paying
their fair share. When we did renovations to the buildings on Main St.
we put in separate meters for each apartment, I do not believe the rest
of the buildings are set up that way.
Councilman Gallagher said he thought Terry Johnson, Water Superintendent was doing that now with the new apartments.
Councilwoman Greene said “no” because the whole process of changing
to per unit metering broke down when it could not be decided what made a
3 ) Supervisor McDonough then asked if there was anyone
who wanted to make any comments on the Sign Law since the public
hearing was still open.
Jeanne Walsh said she had a number of concerns about the law and read a list.
Real Estate signs; apartment for rent signs; posted property signs;
Movie Theatre playbills; Menu boards or live band tonight outside
restaurants; Sandwich boards on sidewalks; Open Flags; Roof type
signs; Build boards; Signs cannot project over property line; Balloons
The fact that you are saying non-conforming signs have 2 years to
come down, if someone went in front of the planning board and was given
permission to install a sign before the law would now have to
remove it. What about signage for churches, fire departments, etc., who
depend on signs for fund raising. Is it going to cost the town more
because the Code Enforce Officer will not be able to keep up with
enforcement and will have to hire someone else.
Councilman Gallagher mentioned that when High Falls Fire has their
Breakfast or Spaghetti Dinner they put out 5 signs; 4 in Marbletown
& 1 in Rosendale that means they will have to come get a permit for
Jack Snyder said that signs at intersection should be low enough so you can see over them, they are a safety hazard.
4 ) Billy Liggan presented a couple of changes to the Street Festival
site plan. Supervisor McDonough said he did not think changing the last
call hour to 9:00 pm was a good idea, he requested it go back to 8:00
Billy said the reason for the change was to try to gather the remaining people off Main St. to Willlow Kiln Park.
Jack Snyder complained that after the last couple of Street Festivals
a private party with loudspeakers & band played into the night; he
wanted to make sure something will be done this year to prevent that.
Supervisor McDonough said the board cannot tell people not to have a
party. Tim Morrison mentioned he can hear the noise up in Tillson
at his home.
Supervisor McDonough suggested that anyone with a noise problem call
the police when it is going on and have them measure the noise level.
Billy said the level should be measured 100 ft. from the property
line, which put the measurement in the middle of the creek. The other
point Billy wanted to make was a party becomes an event once you charge
to get in.
The Board will do the approval on Street Festival Site Plan next week.
Jack Snyder questioned why does it have to be two days other towns
have one day events. You are closing a state highway, what is the town
getting out of it.
Billy Liggan – we pay liability and other fees. We give to the
Rondout Valley Music Program, Kingston Music Program, Food Pantry, etc.
Fre Atlast said she wanted to know what the town received in sales
tax revenue; she feels the Main St. businesses bring in a lot in sales
Councilman Hassett said it is not what the town businesses
bring in, but the county as a whole; the town only gets a small
percentage of the entire tax.
Supervisor McDonough was not sure of the amount of the last check.
AUDIT OF BILLS:
Abstract #5 (continued)
TOTALING $ 534.10
VOUCHER’S #461-502 TOTALING $16,301.19
TOTALING $ 7,274.45
VOUCHER’S # 80-85 TOTALING $ 1,248.93
VOUCHER’S # 79-83 TOTALING $ 2,450.62
A motion was made by Councilman Hassett to pay the vouchers; 2nd by Councilman Minissali. Roll Vote: 5 Yes.
A motion was made by Councilman Gallagher to adjourn at 10:00 pm; 2nd by Councilwoman Greene. Roll Vote: 5 Yes.
Debra Tierney, Deputy Town Clerk