TOWN OF ROSENDALE TOWN BOARD WORKSHOP
PUBLIC HEARING PUOPOSED LOCAL LAW #2
MAY 4, 2011
The meeting was called to order by Supervisor McDonough at 6:34 pm at
the Rosendale Community Center with the Pledge to the Flag.
PRESENT: Councilman Robert Gallagher
Councilwoman Manna Jo Greene
Councilman Kenneth Hassett
Councilman Richard Minissali
ALSO PRESENT: Jennifer Metzger- Deputy Supervisor, Tim Morrison, Ron Parenti, Ken Oldehoff,
Gary Jacobson, and Billy Liggans of ZRC Committee, Special Counsel for Town Shannon LaFrance.
PUBLIC INPUT: Edward Williams requested that the town put signage
regulations on the internet so more people can look over what is
Councilman Hassett wanted to let everybody know that Dollar General
was having a food drive every Friday in May for the Rosendale Food
Supervisor McDonough reminded everyone that the Youth Car Show is May 15 and Earth Expo is May 21.
Appointments: Supervisor McDonough stated that a committee made up of
Councilman Hassett, 3 members of the recreation commission and myself,
held interviews for the position of Recreation Director and would like
to recommend Tara Burke. Tara has been a town employee with the youth
department for many years and would be an asset to the recreation
center. A motion to appoint Tara Burke, Recreation Director was made by
Councilman Hassett and 2nd by Councilwoman Greene. Roll Vote: 5 yes.
Supervisor McDonough also mentioned that the ZBA needs two
alternates, recreation commission and the water/sewer commissions both
still need one member each.
1). PUBLIC HEARING ON LOCAL LAW #2 – ENACTING NEW TOWN SIGN REGULATIONS.
The public hearing was opened at about 6:40 pm; Supervisor McDonough
read the public notice for the clerk. Supervisor opened the hearing by
stating that there has been controversy in the town for several years
regarding different signs that are out there, so something needed to be
done. The present law is hard to enforce according to the attorney.
Supervisor McDonough said before we start the signage part of the law
let’s go over the B3 District that is included in it.
Ron Parenti from the ZRC committee will speak on the B3 and explain.
Ron stated that the ZRC has spent many hours working on this district.
They sent out about 160 surveys and got back about 50. Most were
favorable, approx.2 were not. Gayle Grunwald said that she did not get a
survey and and Bill Moylan said the Fire District did not receive one
either. The main concern was parking on most responses. The changes
would not allow for bars or restaurants, but low impact in home
businesses would be allowed. Some buildings are grandfathered in like
Curran’s old office, now owned by William Pape and the building that now
houses Crosspoint Solutions. The business would still need site plans
Supervisor McDonough asked if anyone has any questions on the B3, if
not we will have Shannon LaFrance, Special Counsel for town, come up and
explain the signage part of the law.
First Shannon LaFrance explained that the reason B3 zoning is in with
the signage code is that comprehensive plan, pages 30-35, cover them
together. The way the law is written now is unenforceable. The new laws
were written with the input of the Building office. NYS Department of
State has municipal control over signs. There is a
difference between commercial and non-commercial as far as freedom of
speech. Jennifer Metzger with some others took an inventory of signs in
the town. This inventory shows how many types and where they are in
town. This will help us figure out how the law will affect different
people in town. There is state and federal case law as to what is and is
not allowed. The Permanent signs will have construction, maintenance
& light regulations. The building department has a 25% rule, if the
sign is not more than 25% inside set back they can stay. The building
inspector interprets the zoning law, so these should be easier for them
to understand. ZRC guidelines also had a section for signs to be
reviewed. The purpose of this law is to regulate signs so they are not
left hanging around. People would have to get a permit for each
Gayle Grunwald wanted to know if not-for-profit would need to get the
permits. Also if the hand sewn ones they use would be allowed. Signs
that talk about your event are the life line to support your program.
Are we to understand a permit will be needed ? I hang 5’ x 5’ banners.
When you state banners most people think of those plastic types.
Shannon LaFrance said that right now the way the law is banners
are not allowed; also non-for-profits will need permits. The law is not
allowed to consider content of sign.
Gayle stated right now D.O.T. has 2 major projects in area and needs to use signage to get people to the event.
Shannon said temporary off premise signs are allowed but need a
permit and require a fee. Gayle said if you make it more difficult
organizations will not have volunteers.
Jennifer Metzger said that the town board would set the fees. Supervisor McDonough does not want to charge non-profits.
Shannon LaFrance said you can‘t set different fee based on profit or not-for –profit.
Gayle Grunwald stated paperwork is time consuming and wanted to know if you could do the application on line.
Councilman Hassett wanted to know if you need a permit for each sign would you need more workers to enforce them.
Edward Williams pointed out that current sign code has exception for political signs, has that been removed?
Shannon LaFrance said that there are only exceptions for emergency
signage. Business signs with name of business, address, phone number and
type of business are okay at place of business. Historical signs also
Dave Massimi can we not charge a non-profit but still issue permits?
Ron Parenti said that many temporary signs would not have a fee but
still require a permit. Maybe the 1 permit could be issued with an
amount of signs to be put out and where.
Shannon said the permits are from the Building Office and the fees are by the town board.
Councilman Hassett said most volunteers take signs down in timely fashion.
Dave Massimi said the temporary signs are a problem because no one
takes them down. The new law would allow 4 weeks before event and 2 week
Shannon LaFrance said this law would help keep track of when
they go up and come down. Jennifer Metzger stated that the highway
department wants help with getting the signs down. Tim Morrison said the
law we have now is good we just have administration & enforcement
problems with it. We need to just rewrite the enforcement parts. I would
not like to see it passed until the enforcement is in place.
Gayle Grunwald wanted to know if there was a way that stickers could
be issued in the beginning of the year to be put on the back of signs.
This would make one application and you would know who the signs belong
Ken Oldehoff liked the idea of a yearly a permit.
Dave Massimi would like to see sign permits to parallel burn permit
because this would give him the time to talk over with the applicant
where the sign should go and for how long. Councilwoman Greene said name
& address would help with enforcement, but there should be no fee
on temporary signs.
Dave Massimi if there is no permit how would I know when it went up to get it down.
Billy Liggans wanted to know about election signs.
Tim Morrison asked would the party be allowed to get 1 permit for all their signs.
Councilman Hassett stated the local politicians take theirs down.
Councilman Gallagher said the problem is out of town political signs that don’t know where they left them.
Chris Beal with a non-commercial sign that is temporary after 6 weeks do I have to reapply for another 6 weeks.
Tom Fiore said temporary signs in intersections are a mess, especially during election time. I would rather see a penalty.
Ron Parenti mentioned that the ZBA gets letters about 1-800-TIRES, etc.
Councilman Gallagher states that the sign at Snyder Estate is
actually a permanent sign that only the facing changes with events.
Permanent signs will not need a new permit with each change of event.
Councilman Hassett asked Dave Massimi if there has been a problem with non-profits.
Dave responded there has not been any, but does not want applications online He stated current code is useless.
Edward Williams questioned if the vendors at the Street Festival
would each need to get a permit for signs they put up with what they are
selling. What about posted signs, No Trespassing/ Hunting Beware of
Dog, would they be allowed?
Shannon LaFrance asked if these posted signs were from DEC and where do you usually put them.
Response from audience was you get them from the Hardware store and put them on posts, fences, or trees.
Shannon asked if this is something common here and was told
yes. These signs were not on the sign inventory so she did not know
about them, but they have to be included because you cannot use content
to determine if a sign is acceptable.
Ron Parenti back to clubs & organizations can they just call and add the next event.
Tim Morrison can non-profit just notify Building office that they are putting them out.
Councilwoman Greene a face to face is a big problem for a lot of
organizations because they are volunteers and do not have extra time, I
still like online.
Dave Massimi is Public Hearing closing tonight because Tom and I
would like to meet with Shannon and Jennifer to go over issues from
Supervisor McDonough we are leaving it open until June 8th meeting and yes you should meet with them.
Tom Fiore mentioned a community sign board or post in different parts of town for notices. He is willing to supervise it.
Bill Moylan said temporary yard signs like free puppies should not need permits.
Councilman Gallagher let’s just put it out all this started because
of Save the Lakes, Welcome Canopy, No Creek Access and that trailer on
Rt. 32 Maple Hill. This is not a good answer to the problem.
Ann Citron said that some of those signs were used to harass others. Are Election signs included?
Chris Beal cannot go by content commercial /noncommercial under court.
Tom Ferry asked about the trailers with signs on sides because his
customers use theirs’ to bring thing in for repair. Sometimes the
trailer sits there for weeks.
Tom Fiore said the box trucks with digital signs and drive around advertising will not be allowed.
Councilman Hassett you got to be kidding someone cannot have a
business with a licensed truck that advertising. Portable signs
are not allowed and non-conforming.
Ken Oldehoff Is Tillson Fire Company’s new sign allowed.
Dave Massimi answered it is part of town under law and exempt from so zoning issues.
Shannon LaFrance said Fire Company exempt from zoning only if related to company business.
If they put welcome home, Happy Birthday, etc. NO
Dave Massimi electric sign allowed for fire company, why not me?
Motion @ 8:34 pm by Supervisor McDonough to hold public hearing open until June 8th, 2nd by Councilwoman Greene. Roll Vote - Councilman Gallagher -yes
Councilwoman Greene – yes
Councilman Hassett – yes
Councilman Minissali – excused @ 7:30
Supervisor McDonough - yes
2) DISCUSSION: Street Festival . The site plan and the DOT
application are in your folders. Billy Liggans said in light of new sign
regulation he need to add under #18 vendor, parking and festival
signs be exempt from law, just kidding. He has asked police and highway
for cost estimates but has not gotten anything back yet. They did tell
him it should be about the same as last year. Supervisor McDonough
reminded Billy that the detour of State Rt. 213 will be from July 5 –
August 24. Billy said no problem plans on using their detours again for
traffic. Billy asked to leave open approval until he comes back in June
with finial site plan. We do need highway and police to finish DOT
Councilman Hassett asked if beer sale areas were still going to be only 2.
Billy said it worked good last year except some question about
children in side beer areas. They are allowed with parents but cannot
drink, we do check ID’s. The open container law will help police.
Councilman Hassett - as far as the open container law the town is
working on the Recreation commission have some concerns. If someone
wants to sit in the park and have a glass of wine, why not yet them.
Beside the law would not be in effect by the street festival anyway. Can
the law be for festivals only?
Billy Liggans - if the town does or does not have the law we will keep our beer in the gardens.
Supervisor McDonough the main concern was the festival and those who
wonder out of the gardens. It is state law to have special areas for
consumption of beer. If this law was to go through we would have to do
resolution next week as part of mass gatherings.
3) Purchase Highway Equipment – Resolution next week for purchase of a Power Blower Attachment for the Ventrac Tractor.
4) Agreement for copier machine maintenance – Resolution next week
authorizing for service contract on town hall copier from 4/2011-4/2012.
5) Agreement for Freon Removal – Resolution next week authorizing for Freon removal at Transfer Station.
6) Wastewater Treatment Plant – Resolution next week to
establish the Town of Rosendale as lead agency and determining the
Wastewater Treatment Plant Improvements project a Type 1 Action.
Councilwoman Greene asked if we had heard anything on the
grant. Supervisor McDonough said that we did not get the Green
Grant and that there was a letter in the folders. Councilwoman Greene
wanted to know if Barton & Loguidice could sit down and tell us why
we might not have gotten it. Deputy Supervisor Metzger said there is
another grant coming out in November and we might have a chance at that
one. Supervisor McDonough mentioned letter from Health Department of
AUDIT OF BILLS:
Abstract # 4 (continued)
Abstract # 5:
TOTALING $ 2,094.75
TOTALING $ 2,675.96
TOTALING $ 3,334.88
A motion was made by Councilman Hassett to pay the vouchers; 2nd by Councilwoman Greene. Roll Vote: 4 Yes
A motion was made by Councilwoman Greene to adjourn at 9:00 pm; 2nd by Councilman Gallagher. Roll Vote: 4 Yes.
Debra Tierney, Deputy Town Clerk